Good enough to be an Ultimate game?

[Matt_B]

Another game that springs to mind is The Pyramid from Fantasy Software.



It's obviously quite heavily influenced by Jetpac in that you fly around shooting things in a very similar way, collect gems (in place of fuel) and drop it on forcefields (instead of rockets) to enable you to progress to the next level.

Fantasy Software's later games, Doomsday Castle and Beaky and the Egg-Snatchers, could also rate a mention although I don't think they're quite so in-tune with the Ultimate formula. They unfortunately jumped the shark a bit with their last couple of games - Drive In and Backpackers - although I suppose that also parallels Ultimate's decline too.

As for Ultimate's general reputation, I'd think that they were of their time and their prime was really the latter half of 1983. That's when the first six games came out and they all felt outstanding for the time, even though some have held up better than others.

After that, their releases became more sporadic and - Knight Lore aside - they didn't do anything I'd think of as truly groundbreaking. Gunfright was the last great game, but by that point there were many other developers with comparable, or even superior, reputations. Everything after that didn't do the brand any favours.

[Vampyre]

↑ Ultimate's heyday was before I got my Speccy, so I had never played any of those games back in the day, and I'm certainly not enamored with them. But even I can see that they have a strong house style and a level of quality (for the time) which deservedly earned them widespread affection.

As for this thread being kind of a stupid and ridiculous: Yeah, this entire community is kind of stupid and ridiculous. We're obsessed with an ancient, low-fi games machine that has some of the most limited graphics capabilities imaginable in this day and age. It's all pretty absurd, really. Your Sinclair boasted the ironic slogan "It's crap!" and I think that's a sentiment we Speccy fans can all proudly associate with.

As Speccy fans, we're always just happy to be talking about the Speccy, no matter how pointless the topic. So hats off to Pete Prodge for being part of the life-blood of this community, generating so much content, and coming up with so many interesting topics of conversation.

Well said.

[Vampyre]

Including the box it came in!

I forgot about that! It's just brought back a long-forgotten memory:

Had a couple of mates with Speccy's and that particular month one of them purchased Nodes whilst the other purchased Frankie Goes To Hollywood. That particular month in Crash they gave Nodes 93% and Frankie 94% Overall. Nodes chap did not like this. Not. One. Bit.

Frankie-lad went to the other lads house with the game in tow, the other lad saw it, snatched it off him and bit through the corner of the box. He ripped the entire corner off, spat it out and chucked the box back at the other lad. I'm amazed the other lad didn't knock his block off. Nodes-lad always did have a screw loose.

[Nienn Heskil]

As for this thread being kind of a stupid and ridiculous: Yeah, this entire community is kind of stupid and ridiculous.

One thing, I like me my stupid and ridiculous, please don't mix it up with stagnating and pointless - tyvm.

Spoiler

Check out communities like NES, Genesis, Amiga, C64 of all things, to see what an alive, thriving community should be like.
In here, it seems like someone just runs an infinite loop of that BASIC sentence generator from the 80's that randomly picks the words out of the same 3 DATA statements into thread titles. And those 2 anons that may seem capable of a conversation outside that grand discourse more often than not just like the sound of their own voice.

/rant

[Vampyre]

Who are you to say what's pointless? We're all fully entitled to discuss whatever we want and it's not fair when someone comes along and tries to derail threads - which is exactly what you are trying to do. What do you want - it to turn into WoSF, that's in its death-throes with only a few regulars around now?

You have a history of crapping on peoples thoughts and opinions on here, and I know you've been warned about this behavior before.

Keep up these discussions, Pete.

[Mpk]

Well, I'm convinced. Off to join a NES forum. Bye everyone!

[PeteProdge]

There's a certain Facebook group for a certain Spectrum website where it's very busy, but sadly it really does feel like being in a care home, as you get the same old stuff again and again, with that Facebook attitude of ignoring Google and distorting history: "Hey does anyone remember the Dizzy games?"... "How do I play Spectrum games these days?"... "Remember this?" [Commodore 64 screenshot]... "Did anyone play Daley Thompson back in the day?"... "Here's me playing Manic Miner did NE1 else have this?"... "It's a shame the Ultimate games aren't available any more"... "Did anybody read Crash? I found a copy online!"

I'm still on it, but it's like being trapped in a room full of South Park's Member Berries.

When writing about my favourite subjects, I do try to spark a discussion that hasn't happened before, is insightful and doesn't fall into the usual cliches. I think I largely succeed at this. It's tricky, much of the common ground on the ZX Spectrum has been heavily discussed for years. I like probing into some of the forgotten software labels and if I have to cover the familiar games, then getting new angles on them is the way to go.

If anyone thinks I'm failing at this, well, try giving it a go. It can take ages for me to think of something new to say.

[R-Tape]

Enough. The last post has been soft deleted. Can we stay on topic please.

[MarkRJones1970]

I forgot about that! It's just brought back a long-forgotten memory:

Had a couple of mates with Speccy's and that particular month one of them purchased Nodes whilst the other purchased Frankie Goes To Hollywood. That particular month in Crash they gave Nodes 93% and Frankie 94% Overall. Nodes chap did not like this. Not. One. Bit.

Frankie-lad went to the other lads house with the game in tow, the other lad saw it, snatched it off him and bit through the corner of the box. He ripped the entire corner off, spat it out and chucked the box back at the other lad. I'm amazed the other lad didn't knock his block off. Nodes-lad always did have a screw loose.

Jeez, I treated my originals like gold back when I was a teenager. If someone had done this to a game I'd just bought I'd have definitely broke friends with them!! Grrrrrrr!

[Vampyre]

Oh, I was looking forward to the reply. And I can see from the notifications it was aimed at me. C'est la vie

Back on topic:

Although I never really enjoyed playing it very much I was always impressed by Bobby Bearing. It was one of those thoroughly polished titles that could easily have been an Ultimate game in their heyday. The inertia was remarkably well done.

[Lee Bee]

One thing I like about Speccy games is how diverse and bonkers they are. At one end of the 'spectrum' you've got the Ultimates, but then you've got the games that are truly dreadful, many which are shambolically crude and home-made, and those that are just completely weird, whose existence is baffling, and seem to have been made by legitimate nutcases. And I love them all! I like that there's no "filter" or quality control, giving games a rawness and an honesty. And if I may add, I feel the same about points of view on a forum - some voices might seem bizarrely negative, but to me diversity makes the world a richer place, and I find that one can learn more from 'strange' people Guess I'm saying I love you all.

[Sham Mountebank]

As for Ultimate's general reputation, I'd think that they were of their time and their prime was really the latter half of 1983. That's when the first six games came out and they all felt outstanding for the time, even though some have held up better than others.

After that, their releases became more sporadic and - Knight Lore aside - they didn't do anything I'd think of as truly groundbreaking. Gunfright was the last great game, but by that point there were many other developers with comparable, or even superior, reputations. Everything after that didn't do the brand any favours.

That's a really interesting point about Ultimate's peak being the second half of 1983. Wasn't Knight Lore supposed to have been written before Sabre Wulf?

If so that means all Ultimate's most notable games were created around the same time with a gradual decline from Sabre Wulf onwards.

[Vampyre]

That's a really interesting point about Ultimate's peak being the second half of 1983. Wasn't Knight Lore supposed to have been written before Sabre Wulf?

If so that means all Ultimate's most notable games were created around the same time with a gradual decline from Sabre Wulf onwards.

I think there was a big discussion once about Knight Lore being written before Sabre Wulf (and Alien 8 half finished) and that the general consensus was that it was some Stamper brothers bullsh*t to add to the Ultimate mystique. IIRC (and I'm very hazy on this) something about key control layout and why would they go one route with Knight Lore or Underwurlde only to go back to their crappy layout for Sabre Wulf.

Personally I would say Ultimate's golden years were 1983 and 1984. 1985's Alien 8 was alright, but far too similar to Knight Lore and then after that, other than the glorious Gunfright, they were pretty naff.

1983 and 1984 I wouldn't say they were massively ahead of everyone else but an Ultimate game was always something to look forward to. I still think of Knight Lore as one of the most important games ever released. Not just on the Speccy, videogaming as a whole.

[MarkRJones1970]

1983 and 1984 I wouldn't say they were massively ahead of everyone else but an Ultimate game was always something to look forward to. I still think of Knight Lore as one of the most important games ever released. Not just on the Speccy, videogaming as a whole.

And to appreciate Knight Lore properly you really need to have seen it for the 1st time when it was a new release. Nothing else came close to looking so good. I hear people say things like "Oh yeah but Head Over Heels is miles better". Yes, it is, but it came out 3 years later and built on Knight Lore's foundations. Knight Lore was first (some could say Ant Attack was 1st but there's no real comparison graphics-wise between the 2).

When Knight Lore came out just before Christmas in 1984 jaws dropped in bedrooms and computer clubs all over the country. That's a fact.

[Vampyre]

And to appreciate Knight Lore properly you really need to have seen it for the 1st time when it was a new release. Nothing else came close to looking so good. I hear people say things like "Oh yeah but Head Over Heels is miles better". Yes, it is, but it came out 3 years later and built on Knight Lore's foundations. Knight Lore was first (some could say Ant Attack was 1st but there's no real comparison graphics-wise between the 2).

When Knight Lore came out just before Christmas in 1984 jaws dropped in bedrooms and computer clubs all over the country. That's a fact.

100%. I've told this story many a time but I was in a computer shop when they took stock and loaded it up on the demo Speccy. Within seconds the Speccy was completely surrounded with kids looking at each other like we'd just seen a vision of the future. It is no exaggeration to say that jaws literally dropped. Graphically, Knight Lore was a country mile ahead of everything else at the time.

The only time I've ever seen anything similar was with Mario 64.

[bluespikey]

100%. I've told this story many a time but I was in a computer shop when they took stock and loaded it up on the demo Speccy. Within seconds the Speccy was completely surrounded with kids looking at each other like we'd just seen a vision of the future. It is no exaggeration to say that jaws literally dropped. Graphically, Knight Lore was a country mile ahead of everything else at the time.

The only time I've ever seen anything similar was with Mario 64.

I saw that happen with Kokotoni Wilf in WH Smiths, which would have been October 1984. Those giant dinosaur sprites would never be topped. Things moved quickly in the next couple of months....

[AndyC]

And to appreciate Knight Lore properly you really need to have seen it for the 1st time when it was a new release. Nothing else came close to looking so good. I hear people say things like "Oh yeah but Head Over Heels is miles better". Yes, it is, but it came out 3 years later and built on Knight Lore's foundations. Knight Lore was first (some could say Ant Attack was 1st but there's no real comparison graphics-wise between the 2).

When Knight Lore came out just before Christmas in 1984 jaws dropped in bedrooms and computer clubs all over the country. That's a fact.

Absolutely. It was totally jaw dropping when I first saw it at a mates house and I always wanted to play it (even though neither of us could get very far). It was very much breaking the mould and pushing the limits of what any of us thought the Spectrum capable of at the time (seeing Driller and the other Freescape games was a very similar thing).

Objectively looking back though, it's a bit rubbish as a game and definitely doesn't have anything like the longevity of the Ritman titles (with HoH being the crowning glory of isometric 3D IMHO). And I think that's true for quite a lot of the Ultimate titles, they were impressive when you first saw them but don't necessarily hold up as well over time.

[StanVanman]

I just recently discovered Devil Diver by DK'tronics.



It plays like a cross between Jetpac and Lunar Jetman (obviously with a bit of Glug Glug too), it's fast and slick and fun with smart graphics and I could totally see it in Ultimate's early range.

[Lee Bee]

I got my Speccy in '87 so never really had any jaw-dropping experiences back then, though I've had plenty in recent years, including Old Tower, Roger the Pangolin, Manic Pietro and Valley of Rains.

[Matt_B]

I think there was a big discussion once about Knight Lore being written before Sabre Wulf (and Alien 8 half finished) and that the general consensus was that it was some Stamper brothers bullsh*t to add to the Ultimate mystique. IIRC (and I'm very hazy on this) something about key control layout and why would they go one route with Knight Lore or Underwurlde only to go back to their crappy layout for Sabre Wulf.

Personally I would say Ultimate's golden years were 1983 and 1984. 1985's Alien 8 was alright, but far too similar to Knight Lore and then after that, other than the glorious Gunfright, they were pretty naff.

1983 and 1984 I wouldn't say they were massively ahead of everyone else but an Ultimate game was always something to look forward to. I still think of Knight Lore as one of the most important games ever released. Not just on the Speccy, videogaming as a whole.

Yeah, the title that Knight Lore was held back for was very clearly Underwurlde. They were released alongside each other, without any previews having been given, just in time for Christmas 1984.

The other thing that happened at around that time was that someone at Ultimate took a trip to Japan and came back with a Famicom. From that point onward they were all about trying to get in on the ground floor with Nintendo. It ultimately worked out handsomely for them, although the Spectrum had to take a back seat at that point.

[MatGubbins]

One of the unlreased Ultimate games


It was far better than Martianoids though......

[Stu]

I think there was a big discussion once about Knight Lore being written before Sabre Wulf (and Alien 8 half finished) and that the general consensus was that it was some Stamper brothers bullsh*t to add to the Ultimate mystique. IIRC (and I'm very hazy on this) something about key control layout and why would they go one route with Knight Lore or Underwurlde only to go back to their crappy layout for Sabre Wulf.

http://retrospec.sgn.net/users/nwalker/ ... facts.html

If you compare their core routines: sprites, screen, sound, keyboard, joystick you can see through the various games "evolution". A lot of their routines are always together, it actually makes it easier to understand their code, because you've see it all before in a previous game. Taking the keyboard routine as an example, if you check the code in Atic Atac, Sabre Wulf, Underwurlde, Knight Lore, Alien8, and Pentagram the code changes; it is "optimised" in Knight Lore onwards. To read the keyboard on the Spectrum, you first write a byte out to a port and then read in from a port. In earlier games Atic Atac, Sabrewulf, Underwurlde included, they write this code in full every time they read the keyboard. From Knight Lore on (alien 8, pentagram, etc), they use it in a subroutine.

So the example is:

Code: Select all

LD A,#7E
OUT (#FD),A
IN A,(#FE)
BIT 0,A
RET NZ

Became:

Code: Select all

LD A,#7E
CALL ReadKey

It doesn't make sense that Chris Stamper would change his core routines, probably for speed and size, or just tidiness, and then go back to the old way for a supposedly "new" game, and then revert back for following games. this suggests that Sabre Wulf was coded in between Atic Atac and Underwurlde, and that Knight Lore and Alien 8 came after Underwurlde. Even if different teams worked on different games.

[Rorthron]

I read an account somewhere that I think came directly from the Stampers, which said that Sabre Wulf was a project of Tim Stamper's while Chris Stamper worked on Knight Lore. However, Tim couldn't get it to work, so after finishing Knight Lore, Chris completed the coding of Sabre Wulf. This might explain the sequence of routines in a way consistent with Knight Lore's completion before Sabre Wulf.

[Rorthron]

Tim Stamper also said on Twitter that Knight Lore was started while Ultimate were still working on Atic Atac.

[deanysoft]

someone's probably already gone over this point but I reckon to be a worthy ACG game it'd have to be novel, well executed and well packaged. Those black card boxes felt like you were getting something special - and most of the time you were. When they moved to large clear cases, I didn't think it looked as good. But anyway...

I would've added something novel like Bobby Bearing to the list but it used to crash. A game with bugs - terrible. I spent money on that!