ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

For experts to discuss very technical stuff and newbies to ask why the Spectrum they bought off ebay doesn't work.
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Speccy_Pete
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ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Speccy_Pete »

So the speccy +3 I won on eBay arrived but couldn't test it as it had no accessories with it apart from a single disc...

I've ordered a power supply and had a look inside to see if I could see anything obvious that might cause it to self-destruct when I can finally plug it in!

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Looks in reasonable condition I think, need to sort out some new screws and fix a least one standoff as it's be stripped out.

Thought I'd post this now and see if anyone had any tips/tricks or suggestions regarding essential fixes and mods to add to the to-do list.

Pete. :)
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by p13z »

A +3 will typically be in good condition. A clean around the keyboard while you have things apart is often a good idea.
If the floppy drive belt hasn't ever been changed - it will need to be, an original will have perished badly by now.
Other than that - they are pretty robust machines.
The power supplies can suffer from broken connections / tracks if they have been kicked around a lot over the years.
The video / audio quality on these machines is considered broken from new by a lot of folk - so some people like to mod that side of things, but personally I kind of like the nostalgia of a fuzzy +3.
Good luck.
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by spider »

Could of had mine cheaply with either internal 3" or 3.5" :p :D

On an on topic note, congrats on your recent ebay purchase. :mrgreen:

I agree about the drivebelt tend to perish with age and if it gums the pulley its a pain to clean them out.

Be aware its dead easy to lose the tiny 'pin' on these. I'd recommend checking the guides out before attempting the belt. It is quite easy though, no special tools needed just need to be aware not to turn the drive over when its "all loose" :o :D

There's a few guides about about this, here's one that has a few pics etc.

The floating bus mod might be worth considering maybe (I can't recall offhand but it involves one component on the solder side iirc) can improve some 48K game compatibility. For what is worth I've not bothered doing my machines yet though.
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by MrClump »

The audio is badly distorted on a lot of earlier +3s due to a design flaw, so long as your not too ham-fisted with a soldering iron it’s pretty easy to resolve. Details of the mod can be found at:

https://spectrumforeveryone.com/technic ... pectrum-3/

In fact there a few +3 mods detailed on SFE, it’s worth a read.
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Speccy_Pete »

p13z wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:24 pm A +3 will typically be in good condition. A clean around the keyboard while you have things apart is often a good idea.
If the floppy drive belt hasn't ever been changed - it will need to be, an original will have perished badly by now.
Other than that - they are pretty robust machines.
The power supplies can suffer from broken connections / tracks if they have been kicked around a lot over the years.
The video / audio quality on these machines is considered broken from new by a lot of folk - so some people like to mod that side of things, but personally I kind of like the nostalgia of a fuzzy +3.
Good luck.
I've got a floppy drive belt on the list and watched afew videos on Youtube about changing it.

Power supply has arrived, just waiting for the din plug, I ordered the wrong one first time around... :roll:

I've got some bookmarks for modding the video and audio so with start on those once it's up and running.

Appreciate the reply, info and tips! 8-)
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Speccy_Pete »

spider wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:38 pm Could of had mine cheaply with either internal 3" or 3.5" :p :D

On an on topic note, congrats on your recent ebay purchase. :mrgreen:

I agree about the drivebelt tend to perish with age and if it gums the pulley its a pain to clean them out.

Be aware its dead easy to lose the tiny 'pin' on these. I'd recommend checking the guides out before attempting the belt. It is quite easy though, no special tools needed just need to be aware not to turn the drive over when its "all loose" :o :D

There's a few guides about about this, here's one that has a few pics etc.

The floating bus mod might be worth considering maybe (I can't recall offhand but it involves one component on the solder side iirc) can improve some 48K game compatibility. For what is worth I've not bothered doing my machines yet though.
How much you after for your one? ;)

Yep, got a replacement belt on the list of parts to get... I've got several videos/post/threads, but will add the one you linked as didn't have that one saved, Thanks! 8-)

Hopefully it all goes smoothly and without a hitch! :?

I'll have to do some reading on the floating bus thing, not come across that one I don't think?

Appreciate the reply, info and links! 8-)
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Speccy_Pete »

MrClump wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:53 am The audio is badly distorted on a lot of earlier +3s due to a design flaw, so long as your not too ham-fisted with a soldering iron it’s pretty easy to resolve. Details of the mod can be found at:

https://spectrumforeveryone.com/technic ... pectrum-3/

In fact there a few +3 mods detailed on SFE, it’s worth a read.
The distorted audio was pretty much the first thing that came up when I started searching..

Bookmarked the link! ;)

Appreciate the reply and link! 8-)
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by spider »

I sent you a PM about your question as its an off topic thing in your topic. :)

The floating point, I can't find it at the moment but iirc it was a simple single component (cap or resistor) soldered to the underside to improve the compatibility of some games. It seems too simple to be true :D but it may well work.

I'll dig out a link later if I can, time short at moment.
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by 1024MAK »

spider wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:07 am
The floating point bus, I can't find it at the moment but iirc it was a simple single component (cap or resistor) soldered to the underside to improve the compatibility of some games. It seems too simple to be true :D but it may well work.
It is a single resistor. It allows the Z80 to read a value on the data bus on a +3, +2A or +2B in a similar way that is normal on the earlier ZX Spectrum models. It only works for some games. And is not needed for the majority of games.

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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by spider »

Thanks [mention]1024MAK[/mention] , I mix up 'tech' floating bus vs point , thankfully I don't mix those terms in real life!

Do realise that you're right its not going to 'help everything' but I guess there's no harm in doing it -if- the Speccy is already in bits, ie PCB is out.

The article I mentioned is here , there's probably another or two floating about too.


Simples™ :D : 1 x 470 Ω resistor and two short lengths of (insulated please) wire. I guess it could be done component side but I've not checked that. According to the linked page connect said resistance between pins 17 of IC4 and IC6

Disclaimer : I've not tried this myself yet!
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Speccy_Pete »

1024MAK wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:58 pm
spider wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:07 am
The floating point bus, I can't find it at the moment but iirc it was a simple single component (cap or resistor) soldered to the underside to improve the compatibility of some games. It seems too simple to be true :D but it may well work.
It is a single resistor. It allows the Z80 to read a value on the data bus on a +3, +2A or +2B in a similar way that is normal on the earlier ZX Spectrum models. It only works for some games. And is not needed for the majority of games.

Mark
Ah yep, remember seeing that while looking through various search results.

I'll leave that one for now... easy enough to do later if required.

Appreciate the reply and info Mark! 8-)
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Speccy_Pete »

spider wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:14 pm Thanks @1024MAK , I mix up 'tech' floating bus vs point , thankfully I don't mix those terms in real life!

Do realise that you're right its not going to 'help everything' but I guess there's no harm in doing it -if- the Speccy is already in bits, ie PCB is out.

The article I mentioned is here , there's probably another or two floating about too.


Simples™ :D : 1 x 470 Ω resistor and two short lengths of (insulated please) wire. I guess it could be done component side but I've not checked that. According to the linked page connect said resistance between pins 17 of IC4 and IC6

Disclaimer : I've not tried this myself yet!
Yep, came across that while searching... I'll leave it for now though...

Replied to your PM Andy. 8-)
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Speccy_Pete »

My second attempt at ordering a Deltron 6pin 240° din plug finally arrived so set about modifying the cisco psu...

Looks good and clean on the inside... Lets cut the old plug off! :twisted:

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Tiny pins and not a lot of room to work, Glad thats over with... :shock:

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Insulated and together...

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I opted to remove and replace the original White and Blue wire here, the originals after cutting are a little short imo...

Quick test to make sure it's (still) working before going any further and attacking the lid with a drill and files.

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The lid...

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The Switch...

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Replacing the original cut Blue and White wires, made soldering up the switch a lot easier...

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Finally finished, quickly put the +3 back together loosely to test...

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And...

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Nooooooo... :cry:

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Somethings not happy...

Image

Any chance doing the R44 fix for the 12v at the RGB socket is going to fix this?
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by spider »

Are you able to test the machine (and RGB cable) on another display ? Even just temporarily.
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Ast A. Moore »

Speccy_Pete wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:33 pm Any chance doing the R44 fix for the 12v at the RGB socket is going to fix this?
Most likely. Ideally, though, you’ll want to switch your TV to accept the RGB signal manually. Some TVs allow you to do that either via a menu or via a dedicated button on the remote.
Every man should plant a tree, build a house, and write a ZX Spectrum game.

Author of A Yankee in Iraq, a 50 fps shoot-’em-up—the first game to utilize the floating bus on the +2A/+3,
and zasm Z80 Assembler syntax highlighter.
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by 1024MAK »

Speccy_Pete wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:33 pm And...

Image

Nooooooo... :cry:

Image

Somethings not happy...

Image

Any chance doing the R44 fix for the 12v at the RGB socket is going to fix this?
That’s the ‘classic’ image you get when the TV/display is ignoring the RGB signal and instead trying to display a composite video signal (where there is only sync information plus a little bit of ‘leakage’ of some picture information).

If your TV/display has a manual input selection, use that. Otherwise the correct voltages need to go to SCART plug pins 8 and 16.
Either modify the ZX Spectrum +3 and check how the SCART lead is wired, or use an another (external) PSU to provide +12V.

Mark
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Speccy_Pete »

spider wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:51 pm Are you able to test the machine (and RGB cable) on another display ? Even just temporarily.
I could try the main TV down stairs, The SCART cable is a "RetroComputerShack' which are meant to be very good...

Appreciate the reply and suggestion! 8-)
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Speccy_Pete »

Ast A. Moore wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:32 pm Most likely. Ideally, though, you’ll want to switch your TV to accept the RGB signal manually. Some TVs allow you to do that either via a menu or via a dedicated button on the remote.
It's completely auto no maual override/selection available, Which sucks! :(

Appreciate the reply and suggestion! 8-)
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Speccy_Pete »

1024MAK wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:16 pm That’s the ‘classic’ image you get when the TV/display is ignoring the RGB signal and instead trying to display a composite video signal (where there is only sync information plus a little bit of ‘leakage’ of some picture information).

If your TV/display has a manual input selection, use that. Otherwise the correct voltages need to go to SCART plug pins 8 and 16.
Either modify the ZX Spectrum +3 and check how the SCART lead is wired, or use an another (external) PSU to provide +12V.

Mark
No manual selection option on this TV unfortunately. :(

More thorough searching and reading, and as you said...

TV thinks it's Composite (CVBS/PAL) in this case.

I purchased a "RetroComputerShack" scart cable off eBay, it had the best reviews and positive comments in various Youtube Vids I've been watching...

https://www.retrocomputershack.com/SCAR ... index.html

Definately need to do the R44 mod...

Only problem is I can't find any 680 or 1K resistors so I've order some! :roll:

Appreciate the reply and confirmation Mark! 8-)
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by 1024MAK »

Yep, RetroComputerShack cables are very good. I use them myself

But no cable on it’s own can fix the strange design decision to use a 1kΩ (R44) resistor in series with the +12V supply :?

Incidentally, though the Spectrum For Everyone site gives the resistor values you quoted, the actual value is not critical. Myself, I would be happy with replacing R44 with any value between 120Ω and 220Ω (or piggy backing a 150Ω to 270Ω ). In the SCART plug, the +12V goes directly to pin 8. Then solder a 220Ω resistor between pin 8 and pin 16. This should then feed the correct voltages to pins 8 and 16 so that the TV/display switches to RGB input mode.

Mark
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Speccy_Pete »

1024MAK wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:27 am Yep, RetroComputerShack cables are very good. I use them myself

But no cable on it’s own can fix the strange design decision to use a 1kΩ (R44) resistor in series with the +12V supply :?

Incidentally, though the Spectrum For Everyone site gives the resistor values you quoted, the actual value is not critical. Myself, I would be happy with replacing R44 with any value between 120Ω and 220Ω (or piggy backing a 150Ω to 270Ω ). In the SCART plug, the +12V goes directly to pin 8. Then solder a 220Ω resistor between pin 8 and pin 16. This should then feed the correct voltages to pins 8 and 16 so that the TV/display switches to RGB input mode.

Mark
The RCS scart cable (link I posted) only shows +12v connected to pin 16 with a 220uf electro cap between pin 16 and 18...

Would you say connecting it to pin 8 and linking across with a resistor would be a better solution?

Appreciate the extra info Mark! 8-)
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Speccy_Pete »

More research and I'm liking the idea of using Pin 8 more and more...

Scart Connection :-

Pin - 8.

9.5V > 12V... Auto switch on AV in 4:3 mode.
4.5v > 7.0V... Auto switch on AV in 16:9 mode.

So turn the speccy on, auto switch to scart input... turn speccy off and auto switch back! :ugeek:

I'm actually tempted to modify the brand new RCS scart cable I purchased... :twisted:

Not a good idea to leave R44 alone and bridge Pin 8 and 16 with 220ohm (+75) = 2.734v in the plug without causing any damage or letting the magic smoke escape? :?
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by 1024MAK »

Speccy_Pete wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:30 am Not a good idea to leave R44 alone and bridge Pin 8 and 16 with 220ohm (+75) = 2.734v in the plug without causing any damage or letting the magic smoke escape? :?
If you leave R44 alone, the current is limited to too low a value, hence pin 16 (which has an input impedance of about 75Ω) will not get enough voltage (*). So the TV may stay in composite video mode :(

(*) the calculation is 12/(1000+220+75)x75=0.695V

Mark
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Speccy_Pete »

1024MAK wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:53 am
Speccy_Pete wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:30 am Not a good idea to leave R44 alone and bridge Pin 8 and 16 with 220ohm (+75) = 2.734v in the plug without causing any damage or letting the magic smoke escape? :?
If you leave R44 alone, the current is limited to too low a value, hence pin 16 (which has an input impedance of about 75Ω) will not get enough voltage (*). So the TV may stay in composite video mode :(

(*) the calculation is 12/(1000+220+75)x75=0.695V

Mark
Doh, I only added the two... 220+75... completely forgot about the 1000... oh dear! :oops:

So...

12/(220+220+75)x75=1.747v... right? :?
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Re: ZX Spectrum +3 eBay Purchase...

Post by Guesser »

On my +3 I've cut the trace between the two "12V" pins an added a second resistor to feed it, the same as on a +2 configured for SCART output. That gives me one pin for RGB blanking and the other for status/aspect switching.

My assumption is that whoever translated the RGB output design to the +2A/+3 cocked it up, because there's zero reason for having two pins shorted together like that.
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