Spectrum Computing

Hi all,

I've decided I'd like a crack at building a Harlequin but will need to program a suitable rom. I've seen mention of the TL866 programmer that people use, but there seems to be many variations and I'm unsure as to what to buy, as they seem to vary between a few quid to hundreds! All I need is something that can program flash roms along with eproms should I need to program any in the future for any retro systems I might find myself working on. Can anyone give me any advice or links etc?

Cheers

JD

It's been a good few years since I bought mine, but you're after something like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325720763905 ... SwSoBkpePR

(Hopefully that link works...)

NB: I haven't bought from this seller, that's just an example.

£63 seems a reasonable price.

There appear to be some black versions about. No idea about them, though they could be the same thing in a new, "fancy" case.

There are some smaller ones that look superficially similar and cost low-teens quid, but they're for reprogramming little 8-pin serial chips. That's not what you want.

Here's the video that sold me on one, by everyone's favourite electrical engineer from down under.



As you can see from the teardown, there's a lot of good stuff packed into them for the money. I hate to think what the equivalent from a big-name American equipment company would cost.

The real TL866 programmers are quite expensive (RS has them at £300).. The cheaper programmers that come from China are unauthorised clones. Or the seller has just used the name to attract customers in their search and what they are selling is a different programmer.

In addition to this, sellers sell various different adapters for the TL866 programmer. These are likely what you are seeing for low prices.

The clones of the TL866 programmer are white in colour and typically go for £30 upwards (depending on if it excludes or includes UK VAT). For 28 pin DIL/DIP chips like 27 series EPROMs, 28 series and similar EEPROMs and flash ROMs, you don’t need any adapters. The chip will fit in the ZIF (zero insertion force) socket.

Please note that any/all USB powered programmers only work correctly with modern EPROM chips. They may not work with older EPROMs that need a 21V or 25V programming voltage.

Most people who talk about having used a TL866 programmer, are talking about having used a clone.

The clones are harder to find now that the real manufacturer has managed to get some sites to crack down on the sellers of the clones.

Here’s a link to them on aliexpress. There is one currently on there for £6.42, you could take a gamble…

I hope this helps.

Mark

I mean, it's a bit of a moral grey area.

If you're a company using one of these Chinese clones to program up hundreds of devices a week then you should probably feel a bit guilty. But if you're a hobbyist working on your own projects for fun then you probably can't justify spending £300 on a genuine French TL866 anyway.

The Chinese clones do at least come with their own surprisingly comprehensive PC software. (Albeit with a bit of occasionally amusing Chinglish in the menus.) It's not like the £6 clones of Saleae logic analysers that assume you're happy to rip off Saleae's PC software.

1024MAK wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 3:43 am Please note that any/all USB powered programmers only work correctly with modern EPROM chips. They may not work with older EPROMs that need a 21V or 25V programming voltage.

Nope, you're wrong. These things are capable of generating a variety of programming and supply voltages, including the 21V programming voltage needed by many really old EPROMs.

Give the EEVblog video a watch. I'm sure you'll find it educational as well as entertaining.

Cheers chaps, guess I just need to find a cheap one and take a gamble....

JD

Waldroid wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:49 am Nope, you're wrong. These things are capable of generating a variety of programming and supply voltages, including the 21V programming voltage needed by many really old EPROMs.

It depends on a number of variables including:

• How much current the EPROM draws at 21V, not all old NMOS EPROMs are equal,
• How good the inductor and the other components in the boost power circuitry are,
• If the +5V from the USB drops significantly under load.

Certainly for some units, yes, they work. And I would expect the real genuine units from the actual manufacturer to work. But with the clones, nothing is guaranteed. Normally the quality is fine, but not always. Just like with an earlier generation of EPROM programmers often known as ‘Willem’ types.

Mark

Do you actually own one of these?

Yes.

Mark

One other question, what's the deal with the T48 units? As I'm seeing those popping up a lot too, they the same thing or inferior?

JD

Unfortunately I don’t know anything about the T48 units. So I can’t help there.

Certainly for the money, for most hobby uses, the clone TL866II Plus is IHMO the best option.

Mark

Done a bit of research, looks like these are the replacement for the tl866 - usb 2.0 and up to 25v programming voltage - 47 quid on aliexpress so might be worth a punt!

JD

@1024MAK
Are you Mark fixes stuff on Youtube

@hellraiseruk if you do go for one, it would be good if you let us know how you get on with it.

@oO cozy Oo - no, that’s not me. I do have a YouTube channel, but there is very little content, and even less computer related stuff. On Youtube i’m “Mark 1024MAK”.

Mark

Pay day next Friday so may well order, God alone knows when it'll arrive!

JD

1024MAK wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:27 pm @hellraiseruk if you do go for one, it would be good if you let us know how you get on with it.

@oO cozy Oo - no, that’s not me. I do have a YouTube channel, but there is very little content, and even less computer related stuff. On Youtube i’m “Mark 1024MAK”.

Mark

thumbs up lol

1024MAK wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:27 pm @hellraiseruk if you do go for one, it would be good if you let us know how you get on with it.

Mark

Ordered, says 12 day delivery but we'll see... will let you know how I get on, usefully it allows you to program PIC chips as well, and it has a basic chip tester functionality but no idea how well that works. Got 3 quid off too, sale on at aliexpress

JD

Well, it came today, nicely packaged. Hooked it up to the pc, installed the software and first thing it did was to update the firmware. Grabbed a c64 dead test cart and pulled the w27c512 off it, read it out and flashed it back in no time, works like a charm!

Next thing to do is to order me a Harlequin then I can flash the eeprom that comes with the kit.

JD

Always meant to investigate one of these, for the Dandanator.

I've also want to write a ROM game at some point; something that you can put in 16K but that will use the RAM of a 48K machine. And I don't mean simply for unpacking compressed data; something that can generate a game from minimal data but can exploit a lot of RAM, like maybe destructible scenery, or lots of pre-shifting of graphics or computed, expanded tables to accelerate 3D.

Just had mine from Aliexpress £35 took about 2 weeks all working fine,using mine for c64(Vic20 and C16) kernal roms with a switcher for Jiffydos, also might do a pair of 128k +3 roms a and b. well worth the money but would not pay ebay prices of £60 +.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004 ... 1802zDXMbp

Yep used mine for PIC chips, flashing 27c512s on a pi1541+fast load card, and also for testing some 74 series ICs. Works a treat!

JD